Discussion:
[blfs-support] twm and xinit?
Hans Malissa via blfs-support
2018-12-03 04:40:36 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I'm in section "Xorg-7 Testing and Configuration" in BLFS 8.3-systemd. Xorg seems to work, and when I issue startx I get the Xorg desktop with 3 xterm windows and 1 xclock window. However, the windows have no frames, and cannot be moved or resized. I remember twm differently, and I'm wondering if it's supposed to be like this, or if something is wrong with twm? Is this the default behavior, just windows that have no frames, and cannot be moved or resized?
Thanks a lot,

Hans
Bruce Dubbs via blfs-support
2018-12-03 05:05:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hans Malissa via blfs-support
Hi,
I'm in section "Xorg-7 Testing and Configuration" in BLFS 8.3-systemd.
Xorg seems to work, and when I issue startx I get the Xorg desktop with
3 xterm windows and 1 xclock window. However, the windows have no
frames, and cannot be moved or resized. I remember twm differently, and
I'm wondering if it's supposed to be like this, or if something is wrong
with twm? Is this the default behavior, just windows that have no
frames, and cannot be moved or resized?
Thanks a lot,
You should be able to grab the header and move the windows. Resizing is
different. Click and hold in the upper right corner with the left mouse
button and move the mouse out of the window. An outline should appear.
When you release the mouse button, the window should resize. Click in
the background to get a menu.

-- Bruce
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Hans Malissa via blfs-support
2018-12-03 05:30:57 UTC
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On Dec 02, 2018, at 10:26 PM, Bruce Dubbs via blfs-support <blfs-***@lists.linuxfromscratch.org> wrote:
On 12/02/2018 10:40 PM, Hans Malissa via blfs-support wrote:
Hi,

I'm in section "Xorg-7 Testing and Configuration" in BLFS 8.3-systemd.
Xorg seems to work, and when I issue startx I get the Xorg desktop with
3 xterm windows and 1 xclock window. However, the windows have no
frames, and cannot be moved or resized. I remember twm differently, and
I'm wondering if it's supposed to be like this, or if something is wrong
with twm? Is this the default behavior, just windows that have no
frames, and cannot be moved or resized?
Thanks a lot,

You should be able to grab the header and move the windows. Resizing is
different. Click and hold in the upper right corner with the left mouse
button and move the mouse out of the window. An outline should appear.
When you release the mouse button, the window should resize. Click in
the background to get a menu.

-- Bruce

The windows have no header. The way you describe it is what I remember from twm, but my windows have no headers and no outlines. That's why I'm wondering whether twm is working alright.

Hans
Pierre Labastie via blfs-support
2018-12-03 08:23:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hans Malissa via blfs-support
On Dec 02, 2018, at 10:26 PM, Bruce Dubbs via blfs-support
Post by Hans Malissa via blfs-support
Post by Hans Malissa via blfs-support
Hi,
I'm in section "Xorg-7 Testing and Configuration" in BLFS 8.3-systemd.
Xorg seems to work, and when I issue startx I get the Xorg desktop with
3 xterm windows and 1 xclock window. However, the windows have no
frames, and cannot be moved or resized. I remember twm differently, and
I'm wondering if it's supposed to be like this, or if something is wrong
with twm? Is this the default behavior, just windows that have no
frames, and cannot be moved or resized?
Thanks a lot,
You should be able to grab the header and move the windows. Resizing is
different. Click and hold in the upper right corner with the left mouse
button and move the mouse out of the window. An outline should appear.
When you release the mouse button, the window should resize. Click in
the background to get a menu.
-- Bruce
The windows have no header. The way you describe it is what I remember from
twm, but my windows have no headers and no outlines. That's why I'm wondering
whether twm is working alright.
Hans
That happened once to me because I had built xorg-server before installing the
font utilities. Because of that, Xorg couldn't find fonts that twm was
requesting, and twm could not start. I think you can still exit X, though, by
moving the mouse to the upper left window and typing Ctrl-D. Then you can
examine the terminal where you launched "startx" for any errors (note that
there may be a lot of warnings about fonts not found, if you have not
installed the legacy fonts, so that this part is useless). If my hypothesis is
correct, it should say something about helvetica fonts, as far as I remember.
Also look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log to try to see what went wrong.

If the fonts are not found, install them, and rebuild xorg-server. If anything
else, well, I guess we need more details...

Pierre
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Hans Malissa via blfs-support
2018-12-03 19:20:51 UTC
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This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
Pierre Labastie via blfs-support
2018-12-03 20:15:34 UTC
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Post by Hans Malissa via blfs-support
On Dec 03, 2018, at 01:41 AM, Pierre Labastie via blfs-support
Post by Pierre Labastie via blfs-support
Post by Hans Malissa via blfs-support
On Dec 02, 2018, at 10:26 PM, Bruce Dubbs via blfs-support
Post by Hans Malissa via blfs-support
Post by Hans Malissa via blfs-support
Hi,
I'm in section "Xorg-7 Testing and Configuration" in BLFS 8.3-systemd.
Xorg seems to work, and when I issue startx I get the Xorg desktop with
3 xterm windows and 1 xclock window. However, the windows have no
frames, and cannot be moved or resized. I remember twm differently, and
I'm wondering if it's supposed to be like this, or if something is wrong
with twm? Is this the default behavior, just windows that have no
frames, and cannot be moved or resized?
Thanks a lot,
You should be able to grab the header and move the windows. Resizing is
different. Click and hold in the upper right corner with the left mouse
button and move the mouse out of the window. An outline should appear.
When you release the mouse button, the window should resize. Click in
the background to get a menu.
-- Bruce
The windows have no header. The way you describe it is what I remember from
twm, but my windows have no headers and no outlines. That's why I'm wondering
whether twm is working alright.
Hans
That happened once to me because I had built xorg-server before installing the
font utilities. Because of that, Xorg couldn't find fonts that twm was
requesting, and twm could not start. I think you can still exit X, though, by
moving the mouse to the upper left window and typing Ctrl-D. Then you can
examine the terminal where you launched "startx" for any errors (note that
there may be a lot of warnings about fonts not found, if you have not
installed the legacy fonts, so that this part is useless). If my hypothesis is
correct, it should say something about helvetica fonts, as far as I remember.
Also look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log to try to see what went wrong.
If the fonts are not found, install them, and rebuild xorg-server. If anything
else, well, I guess we need more details...
Pierre
Thanks for the information. Yes, I can switch the active window by hovering
the mousepointer over it.
I'm pasting my /var/log/Xorg.0.log below. I see some error messages regarding
fonts, but I guess that's related to the legacy fonts, nothing concrete about
helvetica fonts.
So which section did I miss? I've been following chapter 24 as closely as
possible, but I can't exclude the possibility that I missed something or that
something went wrong.
Thanks a lot,
The log seems OK. The font directories seem to be found.

What you can try is to issue "twm &" at the prompt in the window which is
above the others. I mean:
- First start Xorg with "startx"
- You'll get the four windows (3 xterm's and 1 xclock). Hoover the mouse other
the window which is above the others (hopefully it is one of the xterm
windows). Then type "twm &".
You'll get a lot of warnings, but maybe there will be an error message or
something telling why twm does not start (or aborts).

HTH
Pierre
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Hans Malissa via blfs-support
2018-12-03 21:33:15 UTC
Permalink
On Dec 03, 2018, at 01:41 PM, Pierre Labastie via blfs-support <blfs-***@lists.linuxfromscratch.org> wrote:
On 03/12/2018 20:20, Hans Malissa via blfs-support wrote:
On Dec 03, 2018, at 01:41 AM, Pierre Labastie via blfs-support
<blfs-***@lists.linuxfromscratch.org> wrote:
On 03/12/2018 06:30, Hans Malissa via blfs-support wrote:
On Dec 02, 2018, at 10:26 PM, Bruce Dubbs via blfs-support
<blfs-***@lists.linuxfromscratch.org> wrote:
On 12/02/2018 10:40 PM, Hans Malissa via blfs-support wrote:
Hi,

I'm in section "Xorg-7 Testing and Configuration" in BLFS 8.3-systemd.
Xorg seems to work, and when I issue startx I get the Xorg desktop with
3 xterm windows and 1 xclock window. However, the windows have no
frames, and cannot be moved or resized. I remember twm differently, and
I'm wondering if it's supposed to be like this, or if something is wrong
with twm? Is this the default behavior, just windows that have no
frames, and cannot be moved or resized?
Thanks a lot,

You should be able to grab the header and move the windows. Resizing is
different. Click and hold in the upper right corner with the left mouse
button and move the mouse out of the window. An outline should appear.
When you release the mouse button, the window should resize. Click in
the background to get a menu.

-- Bruce

The windows have no header. The way you describe it is what I remember from
twm, but my windows have no headers and no outlines. That's why I'm wondering
whether twm is working alright.

Hans


That happened once to me because I had built xorg-server before installing the
font utilities. Because of that, Xorg couldn't find fonts that twm was
requesting, and twm could not start. I think you can still exit X, though, by
moving the mouse to the upper left window and typing Ctrl-D. Then you can
examine the terminal where you launched "startx" for any errors (note that
there may be a lot of warnings about fonts not found, if you have not
installed the legacy fonts, so that this part is useless). If my hypothesis is
correct, it should say something about helvetica fonts, as far as I remember.
Also look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log to try to see what went wrong.

If the fonts are not found, install them, and rebuild xorg-server. If anything
else, well, I guess we need more details...

Pierre

Thanks for the information. Yes, I can switch the active window by hovering
the mousepointer over it.
I'm pasting my /var/log/Xorg.0.log below. I see some error messages regarding
fonts, but I guess that's related to the legacy fonts, nothing concrete about
helvetica fonts.
So which section did I miss? I've been following chapter 24 as closely as
possible, but I can't exclude the possibility that I missed something or that
something went wrong.
Thanks a lot,

The log seems OK. The font directories seem to be found.

What you can try is to issue "twm &" at the prompt in the window which is
above the others. I mean:
- First start Xorg with "startx"
- You'll get the four windows (3 xterm's and 1 xclock). Hoover the mouse other
the window which is above the others (hopefully it is one of the xterm
windows). Then type "twm &".
You'll get a lot of warnings, but maybe there will be an error message or
something telling why twm does not start (or aborts).

Ah, now I'm getting something: when I try to launch twm as you describe, I get one font-related error message:

twm: unable to open fontset "-adobe-helvetica-bold-r-normal--*-120-*-*-*-*-*-*"

I guess it's really that some fonts are missing. I still wonder where I went wrong: in which section did we install this font?
Thanks a lot,

Hans
 
Ken Moffat via blfs-support
2018-12-03 23:21:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pierre Labastie via blfs-support
That happened once to me because I had built xorg-server before installing the
font utilities. Because of that, Xorg couldn't find fonts that twm was
requesting, and twm could not start. I think you can still exit X, though, by
moving the mouse to the upper left window and typing Ctrl-D. Then you can
examine the terminal where you launched "startx" for any errors (note that
there may be a lot of warnings about fonts not found, if you have not
installed the legacy fonts, so that this part is useless). If my hypothesis is
correct, it should say something about helvetica fonts, as far as I remember.
Also look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log to try to see what went wrong.
If the fonts are not found, install them, and rebuild xorg-server. If anything
else, well, I guess we need more details...
twm: unable to open fontset "-adobe-helvetica-bold-r-normal--*-120-*-*-*-*-*-*"
I guess it's really that some fonts are missing. I still wonder where I went wrong: in which section did we install this font?
Xorg-legacy, the last section in the chapter. You only really need
font-adobe-100dpi.

If you have installed some TTF/OTF fonts, you could alternatively
just try a different windowmanager - I normally use fluxbox to check
everythings is working, for me twm is too old-school.

ĸen
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Bruce Dubbs via blfs-support
2018-12-03 23:56:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Moffat via blfs-support
Post by Pierre Labastie via blfs-support
That happened once to me because I had built xorg-server before installing the
font utilities. Because of that, Xorg couldn't find fonts that twm was
requesting, and twm could not start. I think you can still exit X, though, by
moving the mouse to the upper left window and typing Ctrl-D. Then you can
examine the terminal where you launched "startx" for any errors (note that
there may be a lot of warnings about fonts not found, if you have not
installed the legacy fonts, so that this part is useless). If my hypothesis is
correct, it should say something about helvetica fonts, as far as I remember.
Also look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log to try to see what went wrong.
If the fonts are not found, install them, and rebuild xorg-server. If anything
else, well, I guess we need more details...
twm: unable to open fontset "-adobe-helvetica-bold-r-normal--*-120-*-*-*-*-*-*"
I guess it's really that some fonts are missing. I still wonder where I went wrong: in which section did we install this font?
Xorg-legacy, the last section in the chapter. You only really need
font-adobe-100dpi.
If you have installed some TTF/OTF fonts, you could alternatively
just try a different windowmanager - I normally use fluxbox to check
everythings is working, for me twm is too old-school.
When I build Xorg, I have three scripts I always run: make-xorg-fonts-7,
make-xorg-fonts-legacy, and make-xorg-old-legacy-fonts/

$ cat legacy.md5
9ba75bf38ba62a6ad52550ab716da9b3 libXfont-1.5.3.tar.bz2
53a48e1fdfec29ab2e89f86d4b7ca902 bdftopcf-1.0.5.tar.bz2
1347c3031b74c9e91dc4dfa53b12f143 font-adobe-100dpi-1.0.3.tar.bz2
6c9f26c92393c0756f3e8d614713495b font-adobe-75dpi-1.0.3.tar.bz2
cb7b57d7800fd9e28ec35d85761ed278 font-jis-misc-1.0.3.tar.bz2
0571bf77f8fab465a5454569d9989506 font-daewoo-misc-1.0.3.tar.bz2
a2401caccbdcf5698e001784dbd43f1a font-isas-misc-1.0.3.tar.bz2

$ cat old-legacy.md5
cc0726e4a277d6ed93b8e09c1f195470 font-arabic-misc-1.0.3.tar.bz2
3e0069d4f178a399cffe56daa95c2b63 font-cursor-misc-1.0.3.tar.bz2
6e7c5108f1b16d7a1c7b2c9760edd6e5 font-dec-misc-1.0.3.tar.bz2
143c228286fe9c920ab60e47c1b60b67 font-micro-misc-1.0.3.tar.bz2
96109d0890ad2b6b0e948525ebb0aba8 font-misc-cyrillic-1.0.3.tar.bz2
e3e7b0fda650adc7eb6964ff3c486b1c font-misc-meltho-1.0.3.tar.bz2
c88eb44b3b903d79fb44b860a213e623 font-misc-misc-1.1.2.tar.bz2
56b0296e8862fc1df5cdbb4efe604e86 font-mutt-misc-1.0.3.tar.bz2
e805feb7c4f20e6bfb1118d19d972219 font-schumacher-misc-1.1.2.tar.bz2
beef61a9b0762aba8af7b736bb961f86 font-sony-misc-1.0.3.tar.bz2
948f2e07810b4f31195185921470f68d font-sun-misc-1.0.3.tar.bz2

These are technically not needed, but I don't like warnings in Xorg.0.log.

If the adobe fonts are needed for twm, then they need to be moved to the
earlier Xorg page and before the section 'Xorg-7 Testing and Configuration'.

-- Bruce
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Hans Malissa via blfs-support
2018-12-04 01:39:30 UTC
Permalink
On Dec 03, 2018, at 04:41 PM, Ken Moffat via blfs-support <blfs-***@lists.linuxfromscratch.org> wrote:
On Mon, Dec 03, 2018 at 09:33:15PM +0000, Hans Malissa via blfs-support wrote:
On Dec 03, 2018, at 01:41 PM, Pierre Labastie via blfs-support <blfs-***@lists.linuxfromscratch.org> wrote:


That happened once to me because I had built xorg-server before installing the
font utilities. Because of that, Xorg couldn't find fonts that twm was
requesting, and twm could not start. I think you can still exit X, though, by
moving the mouse to the upper left window and typing Ctrl-D. Then you can
examine the terminal where you launched "startx" for any errors (note that
there may be a lot of warnings about fonts not found, if you have not
installed the legacy fonts, so that this part is useless). If my hypothesis is
correct, it should say something about helvetica fonts, as far as I remember.
Also look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log to try to see what went wrong.

If the fonts are not found, install them, and rebuild xorg-server. If anything
else, well, I guess we need more details...

Ah, now I'm getting something: when I try to launch twm as you describe, I get one font-related error message:

twm: unable to open fontset "-adobe-helvetica-bold-r-normal--*-120-*-*-*-*-*-*"

I guess it's really that some fonts are missing. I still wonder where I went wrong: in which section did we install this font?

Xorg-legacy, the last section in the chapter. You only really need
font-adobe-100dpi.

If you have installed some TTF/OTF fonts, you could alternatively
just try a different windowmanager - I normally use fluxbox to check
everythings is working, for me twm is too old-school.

That worked, thanks a lot. I just followed the instructions on Xorg Legacy, and now twm is automatically started when I run startx.

Hans 
Thomas Trepl via blfs-support
2018-12-06 20:48:55 UTC
Permalink
Am Montag, den 03.12.2018, 04:40 +0000 schrieb Hans Malissa via blfs-
Post by Hans Malissa via blfs-support
Hi,
I'm in section "Xorg-7 Testing and Configuration" in BLFS 8.3-systemd. Xorg seems to work, and when I issue startx I get the Xorg desktop with 3 xterm windows and 1 xclock window. However, the windows have no frames, and cannot be moved or resized. I remember twm differently, and I'm wondering if it's supposed to be like this, or if something is wrong with twm? Is this the default behavior, just windows that have no frames, and cannot be moved or resized?
Thanks a lot,
Hans
Wasn't there something with character sets? Try playing with locales.

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